The guy went on a lobbying trip to DC and was heard by GOP folks and not dems. So what? That’s all we know. Were dems busy that day? Did he try a different approach when he talked to the right. Anyone can go to DC and be heard or ignored on a lobbying trip.
Also, the content creator of the video was not vetted for sponsorship because they don’t usually do that. They admitted fault and are changing procedures to appropriately vet moving forward. I think their marketing team might even be external. Also, fascists never admit fault or accept accountability.
This sounds like big tech doesn’t want competition. You’ve seen google prevent side loading, and do a ton of shady things at this point. Why not a smear campaign too?
Thus guy might be a raging fascist dickhead for all I know. I’m just pointing out that the supposed evidence falls short and proves nothing.
Concerns I see are that Proton encourages you to import spam from your last account
They were lobbying in the US (there are good reasons to do that though)
They send your gmail notifications that you have new Proton emails along with details of that email if you use your old gmail as a recovery while transitioning - just use a different recovery email
None of those actual concerns have anything to do with far right ideologies.
It is very possible, yes, but Proton has to wise up and stop falling the bullshit or stepping into it. Andy Yen said some really stupid stuff supporting Trump and the Republicans which killed my belief in the company. With him still at the helm, I don’t trust them.
All this new stuff doesn’t even bother me. There, they are reacting properly.
What does bother me is their technical claims of not being able to read your stuff, storing encrypted at rest, and so on, but nothing being opensource besides the clients. That bothers me a lot. So, I’m trying to use fully opensource options and self-hosting where I can.
Email is a lost cause. It just leaks too much data. Hopefully someday we’ll move away from it. If we can convince governments that email is an insecure means of communication, then maybe we can move the needle.
Nah, while I understand the importance of Proton, I’ve also seen that Andy Yen dude be openly pro-Republican and supportive of Elon Musk, so I’ve got absolutely zero benefit of doubt to give them when controversies pop up and I absolutely understand that they have enemies.
EDIT: A quote comes to mind, “It takes years to build trust. Moments to lose it.”
"Also, the content creator of the video was not vetted for sponsorship because they don’t usually do that. "
Given the political direction most Westernised countries are heading, the kindest possible interpretation of that is breathtaking naivety on their part. Of course people are going to question why on earth far-right extremists are allowed to have unvetted ability to sponsor software.
To me, the essence of privacy software is the ability to ‘verify, not trust’ which is why the ties between privacy and open source are so strong. Proton are currently doing the opposite of that in how they run their company. A lot of people have had enough of tech companies half-arsing their approach and now refuse to just let these seemingly small things slide - mainly because they sometimes snowball into much larger things.
None of this is a smear campaign, its just a valid take on what people see unfolding in front of them.
Of course people are going to question why on earth far-right extremists are allowed to have unvetted ability to sponsor software.
Because as socialists/anti-facists we do kind of suck at putting money where our mouths are.
There are plenty of other options which haven’t actively supported the American Regime or white supremacists.
You can either switch to one of those and have peace of mind with the biggest downside of not haveing a suite of apps in one location (which is probably bad from a privacy perspective anyway). Or you can deny and ignore the issues that continue to come.
Also, the content creator of the video was not vetted for sponsorship because they don’t usually do that.
Citation needed.
Proton did say “we intentionally avoid association with channels whose content could distract from our message and divide our community,” which is the exact opposite of this claim.
The guy went on a lobbying trip to DC and was heard by GOP folks and not dems. So what? That’s all we know. Were dems busy that day? Did he try a different approach when he talked to the right. Anyone can go to DC and be heard or ignored on a lobbying trip.
This is new information to me, going to look it up and add it to my list.
Also notable are
- Andy Yen promoting the Trump administration in late 2024
- The official Proton account doubling down on these statements including praise of JD Vance
- A string of cases where Proton worked with law enforcement in a way that breaks its advertised promises
- Being not quite forthcoming about its business structure
Nobody made Proton look like this.
Andy Yen promoting the Trump administration in late 2024
Andy publicly supported ONE person in the admin who ended up being ousted anyway for not kowtowing to Trump’s bullshit.
This is nowhere near the same thing as supporting the whole admin.
The official Proton account doubling down on these statements including praise of JD Vance
What you consider “praise” was nothing more than a simple statement of fact:
“At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.”
That is an objectively factual statement. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. The rest of the comment prior to the edit was factual as well.
And if you really want to dig deep - they weren’t wrong about the Dems, either.
The people who run Proton are not based in the US and do not carry US-centric viewpoints. For a large amount of the civilized world, the US’s entire history is nothing more than a footnote. Keep that in mind next time you take major offence to a valid external viewpoint.
A string of cases where Proton worked with law enforcement in a way that breaks its advertised promises
Proton is a Swiss company, therefore they are legally obligated to comply with Swiss law. This includes handing over any data requested when legally subpoenaed.
Being not quite forthcoming about its business structure
You know you can just link to the actual source instead of one creator’s personal opinion. Proton is very up front about how it operates, it’s spelled out pretty clearly in that document.
A string of cases where Proton worked with law enforcement in a way that breaks its advertised promises
These cases are mostly because of legal limitations and user anonymity hygiene. One was about the person using their personally identifiable email as their recovery email, which is something Proton has to retain (for recovery purpses obvs) and is something they have to handover if the laws of the country they operate in allow the government to ask for it. The other was the person using a personally identifiable payment method, although I’m not familiar with Proton’s policies on retaining that data.
If Proton has legal limitations, they have a responsibility to disclose them. Instead, they promise Swiss law, and they themselves, will protect users.
When you connect to Proton VPN, you enjoy the same legal protections that ensure the privacy of all Swiss citizens.
https://protonvpn.com/features/swiss-based
Proton is based in Switzerland, and your data does not go to the cloud. Instead, it stays under the protection of some of the world’s strongest privacy laws.
We are a neutral and safe haven for your personal data, committed to defending your freedom.
And Proton doesn’t need to store recovery email addresses unencrypted: they could hash them. Or at least warn about the danger of providing one.
also let’s not pretend the recovery email is for the user - it’s for proton to ensure they don’t register spammers that can get their domain blocklisted
None of those are mutually exclusive from having to comply with the federal side of Swiss law. They are correct in that Swiss privacy laws are far better than that of the US. But any company operating in any locale is legally obligated to comply with the local laws.
That shouldn’t matter when you take a look at technical merit.
In some cases, but not that I can see in this case - maybe you have a specific example of what and why, compared to other similar privacy-centric services?
Especially because for a majority of its services, specifically regarding Mail, but also VPN and AI, privacy through Proton requires unprovable trust because Proton always gets to look at your data (respectively: most email contents, the same data as your ISP, and your AI chats).
